http://townhall.com/tipsheet/
I believe it's about 1/2 way down the page. Martin Bashir was really trying to back Rob Bell into a corner to answer his questions the way Mr. Bashir wanted him to. I thought Rob Bell did a good job answering the questions...
Even Martin Bashir sees what Rob is doing...creating a 'new' gospel to fit what he wants the Bible to say. He never did answer the first question about Japan... His teachings can't answer that question.
ReplyDeleteGod is all powerful, he made the earth quake, he caused the tsunamie, he caused thousands of people to die. Through all this he brought His people in Japan to glory and the others he sent to Hell. It's one of the signs of the times.
Jer 10:10--"But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation."
God cries tears? how does a spirit cry? God's not human!
What does Rob say about God's wrath and hot displeasure if God is a loving God to all. What about Psalm 5 where we read of hating our enemies (wicked)?
Brenda,does it bother you at all that the God you love and serve sends billions of people, many who never had all the opportunities you had to know Him, to an eternal torment? Why would you want that kind of God? I am not a fan of Rob Bell and I have serious concerns about him but I think the questions he raises are ones that any honest, loving person would ask. The Psalmists weren't afraid to question or doubt,or even get angry with God.They were real. What if Martin Luther never rocked the boat? Many thought he was a heretic.Your interpretation of the Bible is just that-your interpretation.You may be right,but there are dozens of verses that seem to contadict your interpretation such as John 3:16-17 for starters. Also 1Tim. 2:3-6 and 4:10, Rom.5:18,Jn 12:32,11 Cor. 5:18,19. How do you explain these in the light of your belief that God planned for the majority of the world to be eternally tormented? I know all the other verses and I'm not discounting them.What I'm saying is it's a very difficult subject open to differing interpretations from equally sincere believers. You and I may have been taught wrong doctrine. God is Love, that we can agree on. But do we smugly relax and say "well I'm elect and God hates the rest " and go on our merry way? Why share the Gospel then if the unbelievers are predestined to Hell? The older I get the more I question the beliefs I grew up with and that's a good thing. To accept our parents faith without searching the Scriptures for ourselves is easy but not always wise. None of us have totally pure doctrine and we can all learn from eachother.BTW I am not a universalist by any means but I don't pretend to understand how a loving God will deal with all those who've never heard of him many who led better lives than me. I leave that up to Him. We don't know everything but we do know He is merciful as well as just.We must continue to get out of our cozy Christian bubble ,and live out the Great Commission (and I'm speaking to myself here.)There's a world out there that needs Jesus, and we are His hands and feet.
ReplyDeleteGod's Word is Truth. This Truth is hard to take. It is only by faith can we believe it and not question in our hearts "why?" in an unbelieving way. Especially hard to take is the Truth of God's Word about Election and Reprobation as taught in Romans 9 in very clear language. This truth is taught throughout the Old and New Testaments, not just in the New Testament. Adam and Eve realized that there were 2 types of lines from the very beginning as spoken in Gen. 3:15. "...I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed(the devil's seed, or the reprobate seed) and her seed (Eve's seed in Christ)..." It was not too long after this decree to the devil that Adam and Eve brought into the world the 2 different kinds of seed, Cain and Abel. Cain hated God and Abel loved God. Abel soon became a martyr for his faith in God (the enmity). We see this truth with Jacob and Esau. Even before they were born, God informed Rebekah that "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" Gen.25:23, Rom. 9:11-13. If one reads the whole of Romans 9 (really all of Romans)God explains through Paul all about election and rebrobation.
ReplyDeleteRomans 9:20-23: "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory."
We can bring up the other texts as mentioned by "anonomous", but we must be careful to interpret those texts with the truth found throughout the scriptures. Many of these texts that use the word "all" must be interpreted as all kinds of men, of different nationalities, from the rich, from the poor, all those who love God. This does not, and cannot mean, all men head for head. If this was true, then the Bible contradicts itself, and we know that is not possible. The "all men" refers to all men who were redeemed by the Lord Jesus Christ, not any more than that. "...the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved" Acts 2:47.
We do not understand the ways of God, but by the faith which He gives to His people we accept His Word of election and reprobation as Truth.
Anonymous: You ask ‘Does it bother me at all that the God I love and serve sends billions of people to eternal judgment?” I am human, of course it ‘bothers’ me. How do I get elected, but others don’t? God is all omniscient and omnipotent and can do what he wants…my thoughts and wishes are NOT going to change his mind or the way he works.
ReplyDeleteYou ask about several verses that include the words “God loves the world”. John 3:16,17 If you do some looking at other passages that speak of the word ‘world’ you will find that it never refers to all men…every human being head for head. John 17:8,9 “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the WORLD, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.” It is clear that the word ‘world’ has a different meaning than that of John 3:16 but does it mean the whole human race head for head? No, Christ makes it plain that God sent him to this world for only ‘those he has given to Him.’ The ones that God loves are definitely not the world! In I John 2:15-17, We read “Love not the things of the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” Here too ‘world’ does not refer to all men. There are other passages too that talk of ‘world’, but they do not refer to all men head for head; therefore to use this passage as proof that God loves all men head for head, fails.
Several of the passages you mention are what some might consider a ‘universal’ call to every man, but it is a call to all kinds of men in the world…not just Jew or Gentile, but to all of God’s people spread over the Earth…American, Japanese, Greek, Rich or poor, or what have you. I will try to explain one of them so I don’t write a book about every single one.
1 Tim 2 speaks how we as Christians must be thankful for all kinds of men…v 2 says “for kings, for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty”. This is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. There is no period after Saviour in verse 3 so it goes further into verse 4 about the ‘all men’ you are questioning. This ‘all men’ is the same as the ‘all men’ in verse 1 meaning all kinds of men…kings, those in authority, etc…
My Father in Heaven is not a Father to the wicked. Belial is their father. Everyone in this world has no excuse to know who God is. They have been shown who he is over the past 6000 years…remember the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus? Look at the creation…the trees, water, sun, birds. They just don’t come by chance, there is a Greater Being who created it…man can’t do it, it has to be God!
Hope this helps…
Here is a most excellent interview with Martin Bashir on his opinion of the interview he had with Rob. He is very open about how he feels about Rob, why he asked the questions he did, and very open about his personal life as well.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.godandculture.com/blog/msnbcs-martin-bashir-on-the-paul-edwards-program
it's a difficult subject to be sure and I'm not discounting your explanations. Sometimes the Bible seems very contradictory especially in the area of Election and Freewill.If I err in my doctrine, I hope I err on the side of God's immense Grace rather than His wrath. Both are taught thruout Scripture.I don't claim to understand how He will work it all out, but He is a merciful God and I choose to trust that His mercy is greater than we can imagine. As to the comment that no one has excuse to not know God since He created all things, creation won't teach anyone about Jesus and only He saves. Many believe in God but don't know Christ. I hear that argument all the time but it doesn't hold water as far as salvation goes.I ask the question again about the Great Commission and Election. What's the point of trying to get people to believe if God has already damned them? If He hates the wicked ,should we also?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Yes, you are right. God is a merciful God to His people! That we have hope in.
ReplyDeleteYou suggest that the Bible is contradictory in many places about election and if election it would have to be contradictory on reprobation as well. Whether you believe this or not I don’t know. But this is why we take more than one verse when looking at scripture. We must ALWAYS look at other texts to make sure that this is what the Bible is or isn’t saying. Can God’s word be contradictory if God is perfect and written by Him? If God’s Word is Infallible? Absolutely not!
As to your statement about creation not teaching people about God and also that people know God but not Christ. And your questions on the Great Commission…
The Bible is full of proof texts that teach us that the creation tells us about God and Christ…Psalm 19:1; Romans 1:19 ff; Psalm 97:6; Acts 14:17 just to name a few. Those who know God but not Christ, -don’t know God…Christ is God, He is part of the Trinity (John 1:1,14; I Cor 8:6…). Now on to the question about the Great Commission. Christ commands the church to go out and preach the gospel to every nation. We don’t know who Christ’s people are, but the church must bring the word to all men, so that Christ’s people are gathered from every tongue, tribe, and nation.